Hair and tracking spell (Slight Turn Coat spoiler)

[Darkling]

This has been bugging me.  As someone interested in the occult and all fantasy the one thing that really didn't sit right for me with Turn Coat was the idea that removing your hair from your head will stop a tracking spell from workng if they are using a bit of your hair.

I thought the idea was the key part of the spell as something personal to the one being tracked, belonging to them OR a part of them.  If you track with a ripped piece of a shirt, it doesn't suddenly not work if the person takes off the shirt that you stole a bit of fabric from.   And hair isn't really supposed to track hair.  It's supposed to track the bigger whole, the person.  Hair just tracking other hairs bothers me.   To me it seriously depleats the nature and power of the spell.  Surely there could have been another way to block the spell that doesn't diminish the nature and quality of the spell.

 

 

[laura118b]

The real key there was just to throw Binder off.  Murphy only grabbed the hairs because Harry wanted Binder to think he was going to track him.  The spell was minor, just to make Binder notice the spell and not Vince following him around.  And don't forget Binder blocked the spell with running water, not getting rid of the hair, that weakened it not blocked it.

[Darkling]

The real key there was just to throw Binder off.  Murphy only grabbed the hairs because Harry wanted Binder to think he was going to track him.  The spell was minor, just to make Binder notice the spell and not Vince following him around.  And don't forget Binder blocked the spell with running water, not getting rid of the hair, that weakened it not blocked it.

Yes, but it's still there, the notion that a tracking spell could so easily be thwarted.  And that the tracking spell only tracks hairs.   It's canonized by Harry's own words that removing your hair can stop this sort of tracking spell. I don't like that.  It contradicts all pre-existing notions of such spells tracking the person, NOT the person's head of hair.  It bothers me.  I'm not saying it's a bad novel.   It's just this that bugs me.

[Sebastian]

I don't think there's anything in the Dresdenverse about being able to track someone from a piece of fabric. Being able to track the shirt, yes, but not the person it belongs to.

And I'm reasonably certain it's not just head-hair but all hair. Full-body waxing 

Also, it stands to reason that once the hair grows in again, in a day or less there's new hair to connect to, it's at best a temporary fix.

[Darkling]

I don't think there's anything in the Dresdenverse about being able to track someone from a piece of fabric. Being able to track the shirt, yes, but not the person it belongs to.

And I'm reasonably certain it's not just head-hair but all hair. Full-body waxing 

Also, it stands to reason that once the hair grows in again, in a day or less there's new hair to connect to, it's at best a temporary fix.

As far as I can find this was the first book to ever claim the tracking spell only tracks like objects, which to me seems ludicrous considering the extent of magick in the books and Harry's abilities.   It makes the tracking spells pretty feeble and far too easy to thwart. 

Hair is just a small aspect of a whole person.  Why only track a small aspect of the whole? It doesn't make sense to me. 



 

[Sebastian]

As far as I can find this was the first book to ever claim the tracking spell only tracks like objects, which to me seems ludicrous considering the extent of magick in the books and Harry's abilities.   It makes the tracking spells pretty feeble and far too easy to thwart. 

Hair is just a small aspect of a whole person.  Why only track a small aspect of the whole? It doesn't make sense to me. 

The point has been made before that something which has been split apart metaphysically remains a whole - for instance the blue playdough in Proven Guilty.

I can't think of an example where a tracking spell - or any other targeted spell for that matter - effected something which no longer possessed the defining feature. The closest thing to an exception I can remember is Harry tracking his amulets and those are all made by him and according to the same principles as his shield bracelet.

I'd say it makes sense you can only track as long as you have a 1-to-1 mapping of the objects and connecting hair to not-hair, even from the same individual is arguably less realistic. And if you track someone by blood, well... It's not like you can get a complete blood transfusion, is it?

[William McCoy]

This is completely backed by all of the other books, as far as I can tell.

Blood doesn't track the person.  It tracks the blood.  They can't use a baby hair because Molly's not a baby any more.  Any time they track an item, if it get's ditched in a dumpster ala The Warrior, they end up at the dumpster.  The Gruff's tracking Harry had to use his broach, which lead to the fantastic scene with Little Chicago.

You track an object that has connections to other objects.  It's why Harry and Thomas use the pentacles to find each other.  Blood works because you never really (should) get rid of all of your blood at any one time.  It's why a hair is always Harry's last choice.  Binder is the first magical thug Harry's ran in to.  Of course he'd know how to throw off a magical tracking-bug.


First post after H1N1.  Damn it feels good.


---Slim

[FreshCorpse]

Yes, but it's still there, the notion that a tracking spell could so easily be thwarted.  And that the tracking spell only tracks hairs.   It's canonized by Harry's own words that removing your hair can stop this sort of tracking spell. I don't like that.  It contradicts all pre-existing notions of such spells tracking the person, NOT the person's head of hair.  It bothers me.  I'm not saying it's a bad novel.   It's just this that bugs me.

I'm not sure it contradicts. The piece of hair you have that you are trying to track with isn't attuned to Binders belly or feet, it is attuned to the other hairs on Binder's head. If hairs go in the sink your spell leads you there, if hairs go in the sink and then get washed down the water probably prevents you from finding where they were shaved off.
This is why blood is the preferred method. Can't get rid of all your blood, right?

[comprex]

Why do you all assume it's one -OR- the other?

Why not both?


Yes, you can track hair by similarity to the hair you're holding, but that might get shaved off into running water or something.

(but it works really well as a distraction spell).


Yes, you can track people by their (recent) hair but that might get weaker and weaker with age or whatever else.

(good luck trying to do it with baby hair).


Why not let Harry get to -pick- which particular method he wants to use?

[library lasciel]

Also please remember that what Harry 'says' isn't necessarily canon.  He's been horrifically wrong before, and whole plot-points have been wrapped around how wrong he was.  (Blackstaff incident comes to mind)

So it may be that his magical education was a little less than complete in tracking. 

Besides, it's belief that powers magic, so if he believes it, doesn't matter whether it's overarchingly true or not.

[MijRai]

Also please remember that what Harry 'says' isn't necessarily canon.  He's been horrifically wrong before, and whole plot-points have been wrapped around how wrong he was.  (Blackstaff incident comes to mind)

So it may be that his magical education was a little less than complete in tracking. 

Besides, it's belief that powers magic, so if he believes it, doesn't matter whether it's overarchingly true or not.

How was he wrong about the Blackstaff? And that has never applied to magic. About people, events, etc, sure, but not about magical studies.

That's one of his fortes. I doubt he hasn't done the research into that.

And as for his spell failing if they get rid of the traceable objects, it is most likely true, because Harry did the spell, and it failed all of a sudden. He didn't see Binder shave his head and go skinny dipping in the river and it then went kaput. He couldn't have known Binder ditched the spell then. So it was deactivated, by the shaving and running water.

[Mister]

I'm not sure it contradicts. The piece of hair you have that you are trying to track with isn't attuned to Binders belly or feet, it is attuned to the other hairs on Binder's head. If hairs go in the sink your spell leads you there, if hairs go in the sink and then get washed down the water probably prevents you from finding where they were shaved off.
This is why blood is the preferred method. Can't get rid of all your blood, right?

I don't think it works that way In PG Bob says "Harry, babies are like one big enormous blank slate. Molly has changed quite a bit since that lock was taken. She doesn't have much to do with the person it got snipped from. Naturally the spell couldn't track her."

Note that he did not say anything about the hair that the lock originally connected to no longer being on her head if it even exists at all. So why did Binder shave his head? Ignorance, he's a summoning specialist who probably has limited knowledge of magics he can't perform. And some of what he 'knows' is wrong.

[Salacia]

So,because it is only a minor tracking spell, then it's reasonable that Binder can throw it off by shaving his head and then jumping in a river? Doesn't thaumaturgy work the same on both large and small scales?

What bothers me about Binder being able to throw off the tracking spell is that in principle, it implies that with the use of a razor and a river, Harry wouldn't have had an urgent reason to track down the shadowman in SF.  If a magical lightweight like binder can throw off a thaumaturgical spell that uses hair as a connection, why in the world didn't Harry use the same measures to prevent his heart exploding out of his chest?  Although I have to admit, breaking a chair over Morgan does make for more entertaining reading than hearing about Harry shaving his head.

[Mira]

So,because it is only a minor tracking spell, then it's reasonable that Binder can throw it off by shaving his head and then jumping in a river? Doesn't thaumaturgy work the same on both large and small scales?

What bothers me about Binder being able to throw off the tracking spell is that in principle, it implies that with the use of a razor and a river, Harry wouldn't have had an urgent reason to track down the shadowman in SF.  If a magical lightweight like binder can throw off a thaumaturgical spell that uses hair as a connection, why in the world didn't Harry use the same measures to prevent his heart exploding out of his chest?  Although I have to admit, breaking a chair over Morgan does make for more entertaining reading than hearing about Harry shaving his head.

 Oh, and our whole bodies are covered with hair.. So I'd think merely shaving the head wouldn't be good enough.. Or with things like ears, nose, mouth, other "holes' completely cleaning the body, not possible.

[MijRai]

What bothers me about Binder being able to throw off the tracking spell is that in principle, it implies that with the use of a razor and a river, Harry wouldn't have had an urgent reason to track down the shadowman in SF.  If a magical lightweight like binder can throw off a thaumaturgical spell that uses hair as a connection, why in the world didn't Harry use the same measures to prevent his heart exploding out of his chest?  Although I have to admit, breaking a chair over Morgan does make for more entertaining reading than hearing about Harry shaving his head.

So Harry was stupid back then and didn't know you could ditch magical spells like that. He's learned a lot in the decade or so since then.