Nicodemus, How's the head? (small favor spoilers)

[davetheyogi]

Sorry if this has been posted before, I'm fairly new.

I have been wondering about just how long Nicodemus went without air at the end of Small Favor.

Not having strangled anyone, in a long time, does anyone have a theory just how long it would take to cause brain damage? (6 min aprox, just checked)
Near as I can tell, Harry strangled him unconscious, held on for at least 30 sec then tossed him in the drink (another 30 sec at least).
So, two questions:
1. How long do you reckon Nic was without air?
2. What would become of his fallen if he was brain dead?

I think the idea of one of the fallen trapped inside a brain dead body is ubercool. 

[Gantrithor22]

well, we have Word of Jim that Nic's alive but scared shitless of Harry. The Fallen probably would have been able to regenerate his wounds over enough time which could explain his lack of presence on the stage. I would say that by Ghost Story he will be just as healthy as ever, if not a little pissed.

[davetheyogi]

Too bad.
By the by, I was seriously disappointed in Harry that he didn't think to slip the noose off his neck before tossing him in.
Quite a bit was happening at the time I know.
But I guess an invulnerable Harry would kinda change the plot too much.

[Karry Shipper]

Woah, so if Nic is alive... and he's being really cautious and wary of Harry... d'ya reckon that might make him scared enough to hide behind a sniper rifle and kill Harry that way, safe and sound from a distance?

Just sayin'. 

[ClintACK]

Woah, so if Nic is alive... and he's being really cautious and wary of Harry... d'ya reckon that might make him scared enough to hide behind a sniper rifle and kill Harry that way, safe and sound from a distance?

Just sayin'. 

Definitely seems possible.

Perhaps joining Winter was the straw that broke the camel's back --- perhaps Nicodemus thinks that Harry negotiated with Mab to get her to remove the Lasciel's Shadow from Harry's brain?  (Even if Lash wasn't in control, as Nic expected, I'm sure Nic thought Harry might choose to summon Lasciel's coin when he was in extremis -- like before signing up with Mab.)

[auman5]

Ya Harry isn't lucky enough for nicky to be dead

[Orbweaver]

Um. Jim only said Nicodemus is afraid of Harry. Not scared shitless, not paralyzed by fear... just afraid.

Think about how many times Harry has been afraid during the series, and what he did because of that fear.

Correct me if I'm wrong... but do you guys really think Nicodemus survived all this time by letting what he was afraid of control him? Do you think Anduriel would have paired itself with Nicodemus, if that were the case- or that Nicodemus would have retained his mind against a Fallen even Lucifer didn't want in his dominion?

Given his actions over the course of the books, and what we've seen of him so far, Nicodemus doesn't let fear- his or anyone else's- control him. He lets it empower him, the same as Harry does. The man walks around wearing a noose around his neck. He'd have it on even if it didn't have the ability to protect him.

Think very, very carefully before you count Nicodemus out of anything. If Harry has an arch nemesis right now, it's him.

[ebliss1]

Or could it be Anduriel thats feeling the fear? Remember, Nic fully expected Lasciel's shadow to still be around and able to act on his orders. What must Anduriel be thinking now that Dresden showed that Lasciel's shadow did not follow orders?

[MoSeS_]

Also it said somewhere that Nic was really surprised because Harry is the only one so far who has figured out that the noose is Nic's weakness.

[davetheyogi]

I wish I had an arch nemesis.

All things considered, it does make you think that Nic is likely to want Harry eliminated in the most long distance way possible.

[Landing]

Also it said somewhere that Nic was really surprised because Harry is the only one so far who has figured out that the noose is Nic's weakness.

I'm not sure I believe that. In two thousand years and hundreds if not thousands of knights of the cross no one thought hey this guy had a noose around his neck I wonder what would happen if I pulled on it! It's just too obvious a way to kill him anyone with half a brain should be able to figure it out. I wouldn't be all that surprised if one day Harry tries to tell the knights about how he figured out how to harm Nic and the knights just give him strange looks and explain that yes, everyone knows that. 

[Scop]

And yet, Harry just did what Nicky wanted to have happen in order to furher his own plans.  Harry wiped out the Red Court... but instead of being a good thing, it gave people bad dreams about plagues killing children... something Nicky would probably be behind but was not able to do before because the Red Court may have been protecting thier herd. 

Harry's just helped him out big time.

[wildone654]

And yet, Harry just did what Nicky wanted to have happen in order to furher his own plans.  Harry wiped out the Red Court... but instead of being a good thing, it gave people bad dreams about plagues killing children... something Nicky would probably be behind but was not able to do before because the Red Court may have been protecting thier herd. 

Harry's just helped him out big time.

And right after maybe Nic figured he didn't need Harry to be breathing anymore, so he finally gave the order for his people in Chicago who have been watching Harry since adjusted Nics tie for him to pull the trigger. 

I for one am disappointed Nic didn't get a lot more, well, dead by what Harry did.  never really worked with garrotes much, but I know when you cut the blood flow in the neck it only takes a few seconds for some one to pass out.  Every second after that is one tic farther into brain damage land and closer to death island.


I was hoping for at least a drooling, "I can no longer do math" Nic.  But like others said, maybe he was on the brink of death and had all kinds of brain damage but as soon as he was good an away his fallen healed him up.  They have been shot stabbed and lit on fire before and healed rather quickly...

[Orbweaver]

And right after maybe Nic figured he didn't need Harry to be breathing anymore, so he finally gave the order for his people in Chicago who have been watching Harry since adjusted Nics tie for him to pull the trigger. 

I for one am disappointed Nic didn't get a lot more, well, dead by what Harry did.  never really worked with garrotes much, but I know when you cut the blood flow in the neck it only takes a few seconds for some one to pass out.  Every second after that is one tic farther into brain damage land and closer to death island.


I was hoping for at least a drooling, "I can no longer do math" Nic.  But like others said, maybe he was on the brink of death and had all kinds of brain damage but as soon as he was good an away his fallen healed him up.  They have been shot stabbed and lit on fire before and healed rather quickly...

Anduriel would have returned as soon as the light from the sword failed to penetrate the water. The noose makes Nicodemus impervious to all damage but that inflicted by itself- therefore, suffocation isn't going to do squat if it's being inflicted by water. And Nicodemus took a good 30 seconds, despite the lack of a fallen angel and the effect the noose was having, to pass out. Odds are good he didn't receive anything other than a state of unconsciousness- which is freaking frightening, given Harry's statement that it takes an ordinary person 10 at the most.

[Scop]

But he was passed out and the noose was still tighted whilst he was under water... hence still doing damage until he was pulled out... then you're dealing with a wet coiled rope that probably swelled a bit from the water.  Have fun getting that noose knot undone without cutting the noose off.